New Burgundian Inheritance Event makes no sense (other than skyrocketing France...) (2024)

To the Devs

That France is OP is not the point, but derailing the game like this makes no sense. It's 1483 and through the new way the events seems to work, France just got all of Burgundy + its former minors. It makes no sense on a few levels.

- gameplay wise it makes an already OP France far more OP, historically France faced a coalition of foes (for example Austria + Spain + England), never going to happen in this game, meaning France is just intouchable
- Now what goes wrong in this event?

> Burgundy becomes inherited by AI Austria => all minors all get incorporated into Burgundy (i guess this is because of how PUs work?)​

> Imperial Event triggers and France goes to war with Austria and OBVIOUSLY always wins​

> France gets Burgundy + Insta-annexes​

> France now borders all the way up to Antwerp in 1483..​

> What?​

- Historically when Burgundy collapsed France took those lands it had a feudal claim to, now it also just seizes the lands belonging to the HRE...

The event used to work better, as it is now it just needlessly pumps up France and takes away the competition over the foremost battlefield of the early modern era, the Low Countries.

And yes, I'm mainly salty my Dutch Republic now insta borders my ally France and I'll never get Antwerp this way. Gallia amica sed non vicina.

Saltiness asid, @the Devs, this event can be handled better. A lot better.

​

I have always believed that a sandbox event chain that targets all monarchies around HRE on monarch death would work better, but I don't see that or what you wish for happening any time soon... EU4's design philosophy has always been non-sandbox railroading nonsense. E.g. Ming must die, France must rise, Sweden always break free, etc.

P.S. To be fair, you could have and should have intervened while you could if you prefer Austrian Lowland over French Lowland. There are options like enforce peace and offering alliance to Austria. I do agree that some of the event chains aren't transparent enough about the consequences, but in your case the difference is marginal.

colinljx said:

I have always believed that a sandbox event chain that targets all monarchies around HRE on monarch death would work better, but I don't see that or what you wish for happening any time soon... EU4's design philosophy has always been non-sandbox railroading nonsense. E.g. Ming must die, France must rise, Sweden always break free, etc.

P.S. To be fair, you could have and should have intervened while you could if you prefer Austrian Lowland over French Lowland. There are options like enforce peace and offering alliance to Austria. I do agree that some of the event chains aren't transparent enough about the consequences, but in your case the difference is marginal.

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See Also

How to inherit Burgundy as France [1.35] ?How do I inherit all of Burgundy as France?The Burgundian Inheritance explained, and how it could be improvedBurgundian Inheritance needs one small, and probably easy to implement, change.

Yeah, recently I've started to think too that it might be nice if these historical "one-of" events could happen to some other countries too (or instead). I'm generally fine with railroading, but it would be nice to have small chance that something unexpected happens like "French inheritence" where French neigbors contest the crown and lands.

I noticed this in many of the maps of 1.35 playthroughs - no Burgundy, it always seems to be taken by France.

The weird thing is that as a player it has become quite easy to gut France by 1450 or 1455. Burgundy has now 9 (!) diplomatic relations at game start if you take strong duchies. That leaves four slots for alliances - typically Austria, Aragon, Bohemia and maybe Brittany (to dissuade France). In addition the increased liberty desire of the French vassals makes the Burgundian mission "League of the Public Weal" face a roughly 25k French army a 35k Burgundian army, so you can solo France. After that it is easy to finish the follow up mission and get the five or six Appanges for Burg. Hence, in theory and for a player Burg, France is toast. The only question is if one can time the final annexation war with Charles death in order to game the old 1.30 strategy of falling under a PU with a vassalized France.

Yet bloody France never seems to die when the AI is playing Burg.

AnssiA said:

Yeah, recently I've started to think too that it might be nice if these historical "one-of" events could happen to some other countries too (or instead). I'm generally fine with railroading, but it would be nice to have small chance that something unexpected happens like "French inheritence" where French neigbors contest the crown and lands.

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It’s one of the things I’m liking less and less as they do this more and more. It used to be the game where you could play any country. Now they’re just making so many features far too country specific.

gone are the days of “this county was forged through the geopolitical landscape and now with a simple “this country is the way it is because it’s that country ”.

Way too many features events, and especially the mission tree are so hyper reliant on the country taking the exact course they did. So much so that some entire mission trees become completely broken if the landscape shifts even slightly.

gaius valerius said:

- Historically when Burgundy collapsed France took those lands it had a feudal claim to, now it also just seizes the lands belonging to the HRE...

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While Louis XI in the end claimed escheat to get the French fiefs under his control, he did try to get Marie to marry the Dauphin Charles prior to that, which would have given him a claim even to Imperial fiefs. Balancing aside, it certainly makes sense historically as an alternative scenario.

What makes no sense to me is that the Burgundian Succession Crisis fires even when there’s a legitimate male heir - the event will fire as long as the heir is underage, even if Burgundy could go to a consort regency.
The insta-annex on Marie’s death (for whoever has Burgundy under PU) also feel’s extremely forced. Both of these are railroading taken to the extreme, in my opinion.

Side note - in a game as Bohemia, I got the random event where a heir of your dynasty becomes the heir in another country (“Take that, von Habsburg”) for Burgundy. But Charles the Bold died before ‘my’ heir grew up, and Burgundy decided to go under a PU with my rival…Austria. Take that, von Habsburg, heh. This game really has a sense of humor.

AnssiA said:

Yeah, recently I've started to think too that it might be nice if these historical "one-of" events could happen to some other countries too (or instead). I'm generally fine with railroading, but it would be nice to have small chance that something unexpected happens like "French inheritence" where French neigbors contest the crown and lands.

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PUs do happen pretty regularly in EU4.

Instant annexations can also happen with both vassals(pretty rare this one) and PUs on monarch death.

FWIW I see all kinds of outcomes with the Burgundian Inheritance. Even seen a Burgundy survive and eventually form the Netherlands recently.

Burgundian Inheritance is generally less railroaded than the PLC, both of which are less railroaded than the Castile/Aragon PU.

Maxxie42 said:

I think you're taking what happened in one game, and relating it as if it happens in every game. That is not the case, and the Burgundian Inheritance is notorious for leading to many different and sometimes wacky outcomes (Sapmi Low Countries, anyone ?). Also, if France goes to war against Austria for the PU on Burgundy, that's an offensive war, which is far from trivial, especially for the AI.

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Not in the new update

StixRus said:

I think the issue the OP encountered was the insta-annex is from the French mission tree.
I don’t have it in front of me but I think if they have good relations and trust with burgundy they can trigger the Marie of burgundy dies event through the missions. This is worse if Burgundy goes with France. It takes a year for the empire event to trigger and if France complete than mission before hand there is no war. A bit too easy for France.

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The instant death of Marie of burgundy must go away

Also burgundy is the strongest Nation in the eu4 timeline and need more love and Events

Fingon_Felagund said:

I just played Burgundy and I did standard Burgundy . So in 1480s France was reduced to like 7 provinces when Burgundian succession happened. I decided to become French Pu , becauce they will be easiest to break away from. Moment I unpaused game I was instantly annexed by AI French despite having 100 liberty desire.
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France now has a mission which if fired when Burgundy is under PU, causes the Marie event. That's the big change, but with how long the AI stays at peace it'll fire normally for them anyways. The Marie event doesn't depend on liberty desire or the overlord being France.

Vandicus said:

France now has a mission which if fired when Burgundy is under PU, causes the Marie event. That's the big change, but with how long the AI stays at peace it'll fire normally for them anyways. The Marie event doesn't depend on liberty desire or the overlord being France.

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The instant annexation is probably a bug - for a player you should not be annexed but forced into a war of independence. That was the norm in 1.34 and before.

If that's correct, the way to go right now is probably to try the PU with emperor and make sure to have less than 50 LD.

-Duiker- said:

The weird thing is that as a player it has become quite easy to gut France by 1450 or 1455. Burgundy has now 9 (!) diplomatic relations at game start if you take strong duchies. That leaves four slots for alliances - typically Austria, Aragon, Bohemia and maybe Brittany (to dissuade France). In addition the increased liberty desire of the French vassals makes the Burgundian mission "League of the Public Weal" face a roughly 25k French army a 35k Burgundian army, so you can solo France. After that it is easy to finish the follow up mission and get the five or six Appanges for Burg.

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I agree that Burgundy is very powerful in the hands of a player - I'm playing Burgundy->Lotharingia atm, and I feel utterly, completely and ridiculously overpowered. The main problem with gutting France is the huge amount of AE you get with the empire. I had to burn through ~100 AE before I could have any chance of being elected emperor.

On the other hand, the Pheasant's Crusade was super fun. It's always nice to have an excuse to beat up the Ottomans. (They won all the battles, but I still managed to take Jerusalem - ha!)

jonjowett said:

I agree that Burgundy is very powerful in the hands of a player - I'm playing Burgundy->Lotharingia atm, and I feel utterly, completely and ridiculously overpowered. The main problem with gutting France is the huge amount of AE you get with the empire. I had to burn through ~100 AE before I could have any chance of being elected emperor.

On the other hand, the Pheasant's Crusade was super fun. It's always nice to have an excuse to beat up the Ottomans. (They won all the battles, but I still managed to take Jerusalem - ha!)

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It is massively OP. When I trigger the inheritance I have more than 110k troops in 1490. I usually have to reduce it to 90 to stay within my FL but in my latest run I was twice as strong as Austria or the Ottos.

If you feel that you have too much AE, do you use the vassal release strategy? Champagne initially (seize Rethel from Nevers)I and then both Toulouse and Gascony. In addition Orleans and Armagnac have cores that you can use reconquest for. In war 1 you take ALL cores for Champagne (and Paris). Then you need three more provinces in France to finish the "King of Franks" mission. With a bit of luck Provence gets excommunicated (or you snatch two from Savoy when they get their early excommunication). Finally force France to spit out Dauphione and Berry, both of which can be diplo-annexed). That should keep AE at vey manageble levels. For additional fun no CB Byzantium in between to prevent the Ottos from blobbing. Even with no CB you get almost no AE given their situation.

Bibor said:

Good players (Florry, Lambda) have proven that you can beat any opponent with any country. Just watch their vods and learn from them. The game is interesting as long as it's challenging.

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If you have to be Florry or Lambda to be a "good" player then I am wondering what your standards for "great" or "exceptional" are.

Sorry, but couldn't help myself.